Castro Resigns!

[MechAnt]

Toward some good Havanas?

So he has officially said he will not take up a presidential position again. Does this mean a step forward to peace with our neighbor? Toward authentic Cuban cigars? Discuss.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7252109.stm

I guess this means that Castro just died 15 min ago

[boulderkid303]

When someone like that steps down, they always have some body just as bad, if not worse to replace them.

But hopefully they can move forword I damn sure hope so!

[gaia.plateau]

It likely means incoming democratization for Cuba, vis-a-vis Iraq/Vietnam. We didn't overthrow Haiti's democracy and install a brutal dictatorship for nothing (Canada was a part of that one ).

What Bush means when he says he will help the Cubans realize the "blessing of liberty", is that he will help to integrate Cuba into the global capitalist market and begin to drain their society dry. If he has his way, it's almost certain that Cuban healthcare and education will be privatized, and drop down in rankings closer to its Central American/Carribean neighbours. It's also probable that water and electricity will be privatized, devastating the Cuban standard of living.

I'm not sure it's fair for CNN to talk about Castro's Cuba as a "backward" country when for a decade it's had arguably the best healthcare system and one of the best education systems in the world, despite having nearly complete embargoes against it from every side. Castro's biggest and arguably only mistake was failing to successfully integrate a system of governance that could continue past him.

But if the cigar maquillas don't get blown up I'm happy that you guys in the US will be able to buy Cuban cigars legally Edited February 20, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[Oggie505]

wondering hwo long till the US starts pumping money into a democratic gov there, also figure it will be atleast5-10 years before an embargo is lifted aslong as the country turns from communist

[AKammenzind]

Hopefully they'll be able to survive the change without too much trouble, but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Hey, maybe the govt'll wake up and let us buy their cigars again... I'm tired of my freedom being infringed upon just because our styles of leadershit are different.

[gaia.plateau]

wondering hwo long till the US starts pumping money into a democratic gov there, also figure it will be atleast5-10 years before an embargo is lifted aslong as the country turns from communist

Do you really think that Cuba's style of government has anything to do with the embargoes? Look at how much the US trades with China.

[AKammenzind]

wondering hwo long till the US starts pumping money into a democratic gov there, also figure it will be atleast5-10 years before an embargo is lifted aslong as the country turns from communist

Do you really think that Cuba's style of government has anything to do with the embargoes? Look at how much the US trades with China.

Of course their being communist isn't really the cause for the embargoes... nothing is that cut and dry hehe, but it is the excuse that our govt feeds the public. Just like how we're 'promoting freedom' in Iraq

In truth I don't think that most Americans even understand what communism is. They just know that we're against it, and that the government will take care of it. Hoorah for our education system...

[r1v3th3ad]

ZOMFG Cuban cigars, here I come...
on a serious note, I think that the U.S. will have a backup, if converting Cuba to democracy fails. They probably have a standby radical to take over that would just be our puppet. Good times ahead I say.

[Oggie505]

it was first because it was a communist gov so close to the US, we were hoping to bleed castro and hope people would overthorw him, did not work just made cuba poor. But they do have the best healthcare int he world. If/When the embargo gets lifted, all the big companies would already know about it and have already started building their hotels again, of course cigars will be good, but honestly cuba barely makes enough for the world with the US in the game, they will still be expensive, and/or the quality will go down because they will try to mass produce them, which I hoep is not the case, cuba has a good control on the quality of cigars that come out

[TheScotsman]

It likely means incoming democratization for Cuba, vis-a-vis Iraq/Vietnam. We didn't overthrow Haiti's democracy and install a brutal dictatorship for nothing (Canada was a part of that one ).

I'm not sure it's fair to talk about Castro's Cuba as a "backward" country when for a decade it's had arguably the best healthcare system and one of the best education systems in the world, despite having nearly complete embargoes against it from every side. Castro's biggest and arguably only mistake was failing to successfully integrate a system of governance that could continue past him.

What Bush means when he says he will help the Cubans realize the "blessing of liberty", is that he will help to integrate Cuba into the global capitalist market and draining their society dry. If he has his way, it's almost certain that Cuban healthcare and education will be privatized, and drop down in rankings closer to its Central American/Carribean neighbours. It's also probable that water and electricity will be privatized, devastating the Cuban standard of living.

But if the cigar maquillas don't get blown up I'm happy that you guys in the US will be able to buy Cuban cigars legally

Damn, Gaia, you must have some disturbed "medical fetish"!! You should get some help for that before you end up shooting the crap out of some lumberjack camp up there! There is more to life than a free colonoscopy!

Cuba is backward as they come... almost as backward as that other C country in this hemisphere, What was that name, Damn, it slips me now. Edited February 19, 2008 by TheScotsman

[r1v3th3ad]

lol scotsman

[PhishPhood]

nvm

[DJnargile]

Any change for the working class in Cuba would be welcome. If recent reports are any indication (http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/02/07/cuba.videos/index.html) then conditions there now are comparable or worse than that of early 1900's industrial centers here in good ol' US of A. Makes me sad just thinkin about it.

[loanshark]

Castro's brother will take over. Do you really thing this has not been planned for some time?

[r1v3th3ad]

Ya, they just stated on the news that he will become president, if I heard right. But they did say that Castro said its time for change and I'm guessing thats goin onto fixing relations.

[ctdrum]

It likely means incoming democratization for Cuba, vis-a-vis Iraq/Vietnam. We didn't overthrow Haiti's democracy and install a brutal dictatorship for nothing (Canada was a part of that one ).

I'm not sure it's fair to talk about Castro's Cuba as a "backward" country when for a decade it's had arguably the best healthcare system and one of the best education systems in the world, despite having nearly complete embargoes against it from every side. Castro's biggest and arguably only mistake was failing to successfully integrate a system of governance that could continue past him.

What Bush means when he says he will help the Cubans realize the "blessing of liberty", is that he will help to integrate Cuba into the global capitalist market and draining their society dry. If he has his way, it's almost certain that Cuban healthcare and education will be privatized, and drop down in rankings closer to its Central American/Carribean neighbours. It's also probable that water and electricity will be privatized, devastating the Cuban standard of living.

But if the cigar maquillas don't get blown up I'm happy that you guys in the US will be able to buy Cuban cigars legally

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

It seem our government has their head up their ass again. We will not lift the embargo untill Cuba is democratic. I guess they (the US) HATES Commies!!!!!

Hmmm.....most of our shit is made in China. You know them? Commies with FUCKING NUKES pointed at us!...

No Havanas for you!!!!

[gaia.plateau]

Cuba is backward as they come...

What are you basing this on?

Some enlightenment for ya

Second in the world for adult literacy, among many other facts. (98.8%)

Cuba and Sustainable Development

Healthcare
"According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the chance of a Cuban child dying at five years of age or younger is 7 per 1000 live births in Cuba, while it's 8 per 1000 in the US. WHO reports that Cuban males have a life expectancy at birth of 75 years and females 79 years. In comparison, the US life expectancy at birth is 75 and 80 years for males and females, respectively. Cuba's infant mortality rate is better than the US with 5 deaths per thousand in Cuba versus 7 per thousand in the US. Cuba has nearly twice as many physicians as the U.S. -- 5.91 doctors per thousand people compared to 2.56 doctors per thousand, according to WHO. [14] [14]"

Castro's brother will take over. Do you really thing this has not been planned for some time?

Would that this was the case. Raul is weak, and he's nearly as old as Castro. He lacks the political support, will, and personality to carry on Fidel's system of governance. To make matters more volatile, there are like 10 different factions in Cuba that want Raul dead so they can vie for power. More complex still, is the US standing on Cuba's doorstep with a battering ram, waiting for the moment to break the door down. It isn't going to be a smooth transition, regardless of who takes power.

Any change for the working class in Cuba would be welcome.

Are you a member of the Cuban working class?

ctdrum: were you planning on responding to my post, or just quoting for truth? Edited February 20, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[raytrace]

It likely means incoming democratization for Cuba, vis-a-vis Iraq/Vietnam. We didn't overthrow Haiti's democracy and install a brutal dictatorship for nothing (Canada was a part of that one ).

What Bush means when he says he will help the Cubans realize the "blessing of liberty", is that he will help to integrate Cuba into the global capitalist market and begin to drain their society dry. If he has his way, it's almost certain that Cuban healthcare and education will be privatized, and drop down in rankings closer to its Central American/Carribean neighbours. It's also probable that water and electricity will be privatized, devastating the Cuban standard of living.

I'm not sure it's fair for CNN to talk about Castro's Cuba as a "backward" country when for a decade it's had arguably the best healthcare system and one of the best education systems in the world, despite having nearly complete embargoes against it from every side. Castro's biggest and arguably only mistake was failing to successfully integrate a system of governance that could continue past him.

But if the cigar maquillas don't get blown up I'm happy that you guys in the US will be able to buy Cuban cigars legally

Umm... yeah Cuba is so great that people are still trying to escape there to come to America.

Of course, Cuba does have a source of external income (I know this for a fact) in the area of selling sex slaves.

OMG, I must be nuts huh?

Nope. A guy at work, with plenty of money to spare, bought himself a mail order bride. OK, Hooray for him. He also gets to help her bring over her family while he's at it.

Oh, I guess it's not so bad because she is a dentist by trade (trained in Cuba).

Oh wait, no she said it was a complete waste and fraud. Castro instituted a government funded education system to create "qualified and skilled workers" which he did in mass production. She graduated in a class of 400 dentists in one year. This of course, is tied closely to the appeal of "mail order brides" to increase sales creating the idea that the women would be a sound investment for the would-be-groom. Of course, once they get here their "education" is completely worthless as far as getting a job.

Yep, Cuban government runs the service and receives all the money, the "brides" get nothing except a trip to the USA and papers, which in this case was the sum of $25,000 US dollars.

Of course, on the flip side, he is guaranteed to get laid by a hot Cuban chick whenever he wants for the next 5 years. When you do the math, $5,000 year rental fee for a hot 29 year old is quite a good deal for him (he's in his mid-40s).

So yep, Cuba is so great.......... wait, why aren't you beating down the doors trying to get into Cuba yourself if it's so great?

[raytrace]

Cuba is backward as they come...

What are you basing this on?

Some enlightenment for ya

Second in the world for adult literacy, among many other facts. (98.8%)

Cuba and Sustainable Development

Healthcare
"According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the chance of a Cuban child dying at five years of age or younger is 7 per 1000 live births in Cuba, while it's 8 per 1000 in the US. WHO reports that Cuban males have a life expectancy at birth of 75 years and females 79 years. In comparison, the US life expectancy at birth is 75 and 80 years for males and females, respectively. Cuba's infant mortality rate is better than the US with 5 deaths per thousand in Cuba versus 7 per thousand in the US. Cuba has nearly twice as many physicians as the U.S. -- 5.91 doctors per thousand people compared to 2.56 doctors per thousand, according to WHO. [14] [14]"

Castro's brother will take over. Do you really thing this has not been planned for some time?

Would that this was the case. Raul is weak, and he's nearly as old as Castro. He lacks the political support, will, and personality to carry on Fidel's system of governance. To make matters more volatile, there are like 10 different factions in Cuba that want Raul dead so they can vie for power. More complex still, is the US standing on Cuba's doorstep with a battering ram, waiting for the moment to break the door down. It isn't going to be a smooth transition, regardless of who takes power.

Any change for the working class in Cuba would be welcome.

Are you a member of the Cuban working class?

ctdrum: were you planning on responding to my post, or just quoting for truth?

Heh, gonna have to hit this low hanging Medical fruit off the tree. (Oh, and a low blow at Michael Moore) I would also recommend you read Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 911

http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/07/20/mic...E2%80%94almost/
<h2 class="entry-title">Michael Moore's Cuban Fraud: Reuters Comes Clean—Almost</h2> Among Michael Moore's many contemptible characteristics is his willingness to capitalize on the misery of ordinary people. His disgraceful exploitation of Lila Limbscomb in Fahrenheit 9-11 is probably the most egregious example, but his shameless use of three 9-11 responders in SiCKO was nearly as bad.

The one redeeming feature of Moore's Cuban odyssey was that Regina Cervantes, et al got reasonably decent care. Ironically, it was far better than the care most native Cubans receive in Castro's dilapidated health care system. Even Reuters, which has consistently abetted Moore in his fraudulent depiction of Cuban health care, has been forced to admit the following:

The hospital where SiCKO's patients were treated is an exception in Cuba, where patients of many other hospitals complain they have to take their own sheets and food.

Indeed, the hospital in which the three responders were treated is a luxury hotel compared to the hog pens in which most Cubans receive their health care.

The 9/11 responders spent 10 days on the 19th floor of Cuba's flagship hospital with a view of the Caribbean sea, a sharp contrast to many Cuban hospitals that are crumbling, badly lit, and which lack equipment and medicines.

Predictably, Reuters compensated for this uncharacteristically honest reporting by parroting the usual Lefty canards about the "accomplishments" of Cuban health care, but it was a half-hearted effort. Even those useful idiots can see that a massive fraud has been perpetrated by Moore.

[raytrace]

And one last thing...

When Castro dies he will do so without ever having been brought to justice for the imprisonment of innocent activists, murder, and for sepearting countless families with his lies and deceit. People are so quick to forget that the closest this nation has ever been to nuclear Armageddon was when he told the Soviets to plop their missiles on Cuban soil. In addition, countless others forget it was Castro who was most adamant about them being launched at US soil. The rest of the world cannot and will never comprehend the plight of those most affected by Castro's actions back in the early 60's. I live in Florida and have several hispanic friends, one Cuban, and one would have to be born into the culture to undertsand the passion associated with the satisfaction of seeing him gone. And as for the comments trickling out of Havana about the disgust they feel over this planned party, lets see what they say when they have actual freedom of the press and don't have to look over their shoulder before we draw up any false conclusions.

[gaia.plateau]

Why do you bring Michael Moore into this at all?

Venturing a guess... you couldn't find any point in that post to argue against, but you still disagreed with it for reasons you weren't quite sure of... so you invented a connection to something that could be easily debunked. Is that close? This is commonly known as "The O'Reily Technique".

Heh, gonna have to hit this low hanging Medical fruit off the tree. (Oh, and a low blow at Michael Moore) I would also recommend you read Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 911

http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/07/20/mic...E2%80%94almost/
<h2 class="entry-title">Michael Moore's Cuban Fraud: Reuters Comes Clean—Almost</h2> Among Michael Moore's many contemptible characteristics is his willingness to capitalize on the misery of ordinary people. His disgraceful exploitation of Lila Limbscomb in Fahrenheit 9-11 is probably the most egregious example, but his shameless use of three 9-11 responders in SiCKO was nearly as bad.

The one redeeming feature of Moore's Cuban odyssey was that Regina Cervantes, et al got reasonably decent care. Ironically, it was far better than the care most native Cubans receive in Castro's dilapidated health care system. Even Reuters, which has consistently abetted Moore in his fraudulent depiction of Cuban health care, has been forced to admit the following:

The hospital where SiCKO's patients were treated is an exception in Cuba, where patients of many other hospitals complain they have to take their own sheets and food.

Indeed, the hospital in which the three responders were treated is a luxury hotel compared to the hog pens in which most Cubans receive their health care.

The 9/11 responders spent 10 days on the 19th floor of Cuba's flagship hospital with a view of the Caribbean sea, a sharp contrast to many Cuban hospitals that are crumbling, badly lit, and which lack equipment and medicines.

Predictably, Reuters compensated for this uncharacteristically honest reporting by parroting the usual Lefty canards about the "accomplishments" of Cuban health care, but it was a half-hearted effort. Even those useful idiots can see that a massive fraud has been perpetrated by Moore.

[gaia.plateau]

Umm... yeah Cuba is so great that people are still trying to escape there to come to America.

Of course, Cuba does have a source of external income (I know this for a fact) in the area of selling sex slaves.

If it's a fact, present a source like I did.

Googling Cuba + "government sanctioned sex trade" yields no results.

So yep, Cuba is so great.......... wait, why aren't you beating down the doors trying to get into Cuba yourself if it's so great?

There's no doors to beat down, Canadians can travel to Cuba freely. I've spent time in 5 villages there, as well as Havanna, and met some of the most compassionate, jovial people I've ever encountered, not to mention fantastic cigars, mojitos, and some of the most beautiful beaches I've ever seen (hard to beat the Bay Islands).

[raytrace]

Why do you bring Michael Moore into this at all?

Venturing a guess... you couldn't find any point in that post to argue against, but you still disagreed with it for reasons you weren't quite sure of... so you invented a connection to something that could be easily debunked. Is that close? This is commonly known as "The O'Reily Technique".

Heh, gonna have to hit this low hanging Medical fruit off the tree. (Oh, and a low blow at Michael Moore) I would also recommend you read Fifty-nine Deceits in Fahrenheit 911

http://www.healthcarebs.com/2007/07/20/mic...E2%80%94almost/
<h2 class="entry-title">Michael Moore's Cuban Fraud: Reuters Comes Clean—Almost</h2> Among Michael Moore's many contemptible characteristics is his willingness to capitalize on the misery of ordinary people. His disgraceful exploitation of Lila Limbscomb in Fahrenheit 9-11 is probably the most egregious example, but his shameless use of three 9-11 responders in SiCKO was nearly as bad.

The one redeeming feature of Moore's Cuban odyssey was that Regina Cervantes, et al got reasonably decent care. Ironically, it was far better than the care most native Cubans receive in Castro's dilapidated health care system. Even Reuters, which has consistently abetted Moore in his fraudulent depiction of Cuban health care, has been forced to admit the following:

The hospital where SiCKO's patients were treated is an exception in Cuba, where patients of many other hospitals complain they have to take their own sheets and food.

Indeed, the hospital in which the three responders were treated is a luxury hotel compared to the hog pens in which most Cubans receive their health care.

The 9/11 responders spent 10 days on the 19th floor of Cuba's flagship hospital with a view of the Caribbean sea, a sharp contrast to many Cuban hospitals that are crumbling, badly lit, and which lack equipment and medicines.

Predictably, Reuters compensated for this uncharacteristically honest reporting by parroting the usual Lefty canards about the "accomplishments" of Cuban health care, but it was a half-hearted effort. Even those useful idiots can see that a massive fraud has been perpetrated by Moore.

The only reason I brought up Michael Moore is because you are quoting straight from his movie Sicko, yes I have seen it, and just wanted to point out to you that he can't be trusted in his "documentaries".

Hey, also if you got a problem with it than take it up with Reuters instead of just trying to attack me directly. I quote Reuters again.

The hospital where SiCKO's patients were treated is an exception in Cuba, where patients of many other hospitals complain they have to take their own sheets and food.

And

The 9/11 responders spent 10 days on the 19th floor of Cuba's flagship hospital with a view of the Caribbean sea, a sharp contrast to many Cuban hospitals that are crumbling, badly lit, and which lack equipment and medicines.

[gaia.plateau]

People are so quick to forget that the closest this nation has ever been to nuclear Armageddon was when he told the Soviets to plop their missiles on Cuban soil. In addition, countless others forget it was Castro who was most adamant about them being launched at US soil.

Tried to find a source for the last sentence here, couldn't... In any case, I never advocated Castro's political decisions, another connection you seem to have invented, I've only said that "democratizing" Cuba, vis-a-vis another puppet dictatorship like the Batistas, will make life far, far, far far worse for Cubans than it is now. And considering that the US oppressed and exploited Cubans for 40 years through the Batista regime, and that following the revolution they imposed embargoes against food and medical supplies, among other things, can you really blame Fidel for being a little bitter?

The rest of the world cannot and will never comprehend the plight of those most affected by Castro's actions back in the early 60's.

Hiroshima survivors?